Comments on: HOF ’09: Bert Blyleven http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven Looking at the Game of Baseball from all ends of the Spectrum Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:15:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: The Baseball Zealot http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven/comment-page-1#comment-1772 The Baseball Zealot Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:56:16 +0000 http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven#comment-1772 Yikes! BB was indeed a hard luck pitcher. His 20 ND in '79 are indicative of that as well I suppose. I don't know if the BBWAA would be swayed by that or not. don't throw too many stats their way, they might get confused. :) Yikes! BB was indeed a hard luck pitcher. His 20 ND in ’79 are indicative of that as well I suppose.

I don’t know if the BBWAA would be swayed by that or not. don’t throw too many stats their way, they might get confused. :)

]]> By: Bill Gros http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven/comment-page-1#comment-1745 Bill Gros Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:26:50 +0000 http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven#comment-1745 An amazing Bert Blyleven statistic that I wouldn’t wish upon any major league pitcher: From his 1970 rookie season through 1977 I’ve accumulated his quality starts that I’ve defined as: 6innings, 2earned runs or less; 7,8,9innings, 3earned runs or less; and 9innings+ 4 earned runs or less in which he garnered a no decision or a loss only…… The totals are: 82 games 658 innings 583 hits 185 runs 160 earned runs 184 base on balls 540 strikeouts 2.19 ERA His record: 0 wins and 53 LOSSES. I repeat 0 wins and 53 losses with a 2.19 ERA 1970 0-3 2.09 9 games 1971 0-6 1.90 9 games 1972 0-9 2.35 13 games 1973 0-8 2.55 9 games 1974 0-8 1.80 10 games 1975 0-6 2.00 10 games 1976 0-8 2.29 15 games 1977 0-5 2.45 7 games I understand that pitchers put up great games and get snakebit on occasion, but this accounted for almost 1 of every 3 starts, 82 of 279 to be exact or 29%. Show me a Hall of Famer that had to go through this year by year. Fortunately once Blyleven ended up in Pittsburgh and later some good Minnesota teams, this trend eased to what I would consider normal levels (I had researched this in the past but don’t have the numbers on hand) Imagine 1974, your 17-9 in 27 games, and in the other 10, all of which are essentially quality starts, you post a 1.80ERA and go 0-8. You end up 17-17. If you don’t know the facts, and your voting for the Cy Young award, and you see 17-17. Do you cast a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place vote? Probably not. This is what Blyleven faced in yesteryear, and the same writers, who I contend do not know the facts, are what Blyleven faces every year in the HOF vote. Go ahead, plug in a different year, or harken back to Baseball-reference and neutralize the stats, do it for every one of Blyleven’s contemporaries. The numbers don’t change much, but for Bert Blyleven, they do. The example given above is my attempt to show why. Teams that didn’t score runs and booted the ball around like it was a soccer match. An amazing Bert Blyleven statistic that I wouldn’t wish upon any major league pitcher:
From his 1970 rookie season through 1977 I’ve accumulated his quality starts that I’ve defined as: 6innings, 2earned runs or less; 7,8,9innings, 3earned runs or less; and 9innings+ 4 earned runs or less in which he garnered a no decision or a loss only……

The totals are:
82 games
658 innings
583 hits
185 runs
160 earned runs
184 base on balls
540 strikeouts
2.19 ERA
His record: 0 wins and 53 LOSSES. I repeat 0 wins and 53 losses with a 2.19 ERA

1970 0-3 2.09 9 games
1971 0-6 1.90 9 games
1972 0-9 2.35 13 games
1973 0-8 2.55 9 games
1974 0-8 1.80 10 games
1975 0-6 2.00 10 games
1976 0-8 2.29 15 games
1977 0-5 2.45 7 games

I understand that pitchers put up great games and get snakebit on occasion, but this accounted for almost 1 of every 3 starts, 82 of 279 to be exact or 29%. Show me a Hall of Famer that had to go through this year by year. Fortunately once Blyleven ended up in Pittsburgh and later some good Minnesota teams, this trend eased to what I would consider normal levels (I had researched this in the past but don’t have the numbers on hand)

Imagine 1974, your 17-9 in 27 games, and in the other 10, all of which are essentially quality starts, you post a 1.80ERA and go 0-8. You end up 17-17. If you don’t know the facts, and your voting for the Cy Young award, and you see 17-17. Do you cast a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place vote? Probably not. This is what Blyleven faced in yesteryear, and the same writers, who I contend do not know the facts, are what Blyleven faces every year in the HOF vote.

Go ahead, plug in a different year, or harken back to Baseball-reference and neutralize the stats, do it for every one of Blyleven’s contemporaries. The numbers don’t change much, but for Bert Blyleven, they do. The example given above is my attempt to show why. Teams that didn’t score runs and booted the ball around like it was a soccer match.

]]> By: waka25 http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven/comment-page-1#comment-1623 waka25 Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:44:12 +0000 http://www.thebaseballzealot.com/hall-of-fame/hof-09-bert-blyleven#comment-1623 Thanks for the link and good sum-up of the debate. I'm very pro-Blyleven in the Hall - and one thing I'll say is that three of the four cons you mention are dependent on other people 'helping' him make his case. He's got a boatload of top-five finishes in ERA, WHIP, shutouts, Ks, complete games, and K:BB ratios. He may never have won a Cy Young, and in fact only finished in the top 5 of voting three times, but an argument against that can be seen in 1977, when he led the league in WHIP, was second in ERA, adjusted ERA+, and shutouts, and had the seventh-most Ks (not to mention a no-hitter that season). He went through a rough streak that summer in low-scoring one-run games, and ended with only 14 wins, due largely to low run support. He deserved Cy Young votes and didn't get a single vote anywhere on the ballot. Same thing in 1973 - Blyleven finished 2nd in ERA, WHIP, and strikeouts, and led the league in shutouts and adjusted ERA+, but finished seventh in CYA voting. Thanks for the link and good sum-up of the debate. I’m very pro-Blyleven in the Hall – and one thing I’ll say is that three of the four cons you mention are dependent on other people ‘helping’ him make his case. He’s got a boatload of top-five finishes in ERA, WHIP, shutouts, Ks, complete games, and K:BB ratios.

He may never have won a Cy Young, and in fact only finished in the top 5 of voting three times, but an argument against that can be seen in 1977, when he led the league in WHIP, was second in ERA, adjusted ERA+, and shutouts, and had the seventh-most Ks (not to mention a no-hitter that season). He went through a rough streak that summer in low-scoring one-run games, and ended with only 14 wins, due largely to low run support. He deserved Cy Young votes and didn’t get a single vote anywhere on the ballot.

Same thing in 1973 – Blyleven finished 2nd in ERA, WHIP, and strikeouts, and led the league in shutouts and adjusted ERA+, but finished seventh in CYA voting.

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